Intimacy, Hollywood and Bridgerton: In Conversation With Lizzy Talbot

Back in 2016, Lizzy Talbot established Theatrical Intimacy, one of the first UK companies dedicated to challenging the archaic approach to intimacy in film and theatre. Both at the time and in hindsight, Lizzy’s vow to activate change in that space was a truly revolutionary act, largely because, as stated by Lizzy, the “world of intimacy”, as we understand it in its current form, “simply didn’t exist”. 

In short, the construction of sex scenes in film, TV and theatre was completely unregulated, with issues of consent and trauma shockingly commonplace. Abuse and misogyny have always been woven into the fabric of Hollywood, accumulating in the powerful 2016 #MeToo movement, which bravely tore down the curtain on the sinister extent to which women, and men, were often victims of predatory mistreatment within the industry. This behaviour can be traced way back to the infancy stages of Hollywood, with Marilyn Monroe recounting her experiences with “predatory males” in her published essay of 1953, a call to action for other actors to collectively “outwit the wolves”. 

In a post #MeToo world, it is clear that there is still a lot of work to be done. The past few months alone have seen a slew of actors recounting negative experiences, namely the way in which simulated sex scenes were handled and created; a troubling consequence of the absence of intimacy standards. In January, Keira Knightley vocalised that she would never “shoot (anymore) sex scenes directed by men”. Kelly Macdonald, of Trainspotting fame, echoed Knightely’s sentiment in a recent interview with The Guardian, saying that whilst she was never subjected to abuse, she realised her experience was “unusual” and prefers to no longer participate in sex scenes, period. Speaking candidly on the How To Find My Voice podcast, Kate Winslet admitted to standing in as an intimacy coordinator for her 20-year-old onscreen daughter during the filming of HBO series, Mare of Easttown. According to Winslet, because the show wouldn’t contain nudity, the team didn’t feel an intimacy coordinator was necessary. Winslet, quite rightfully, disagreed, going one step further in admitting that she had often “wish[ed]” for an intimacy coordinator on the set of her previous films.

With that being said, creatives and industry professionals shining a light on this topic certainly indicates progress. Smash hits like Gentleman Jack, Normal People and It’s a Sin all used intimacy coordinators, resulting in simulated sex scenes that not only continue to be praised for their authenticity but, crucially, were constructed through regulation and safety measures. Notably, the stunning intimacy scenes in Bridgerton - created upon ethical and moral foundations -  are one of the central reasons why the eight-part series has become the most-watched show in Netflix history. It certainly seems as though the idea of the intimacy coordinator, a role that didn’t exist five years ago, is slowly but surely permeating the consciousness of popular culture (see Regé-Jean Page’s SNL sketch involving Pete Davidson and Mikey Day posing as a pair of dodgy intimacy coordinators). I spoke to Lizzy about the movement, the importance of the female gaze and the logistics that go into creating on-screen intimacy. 

So back in 2015, you were a fight director. What made you want to transition into the world of intimacy?

For me, it was about creating a world in which [onscreen intimacy] existed in the first place. You couldn’t train to be an intimacy coordinator because that simply wasn’t a role in 2015, so it was more about research, investigation and working out what is not working and why. We knew that people had very strong feelings and negative emotions towards simulated sex, so it was up to us to find out what exactly was going on and what was at play.  

What we did realise was that there was a huge silence surrounding intimacy. It just wasn’t visible. If you had inflicted trauma, even unintentionally, you may not have realised it due to the power dynamic as a director and how the industry is structured more generally.

I can imagine the embryonic stages of creating this world must have been incredibly challenging.

Absolutely. I was running workshops in 2016 and only one person signed up. The constant narrative we were receiving was that the industry wasn’t going to change. The typical response I received from any emails I sent out was “thank you, but no thank you”. One response even ironically asked, “oh, do we need an eating director now that we need an intimacy coordinator?”. No one ever considered that this position would be real. It was very much a mocked pie-in-the-sky ideal. So it’s a testament to this movement, the wider #MeToo movement and to everyone who worked so hard to make sure that it actually became a reality. 

Now that this reality is becoming increasingly present in the mainstream, especially with actors openly expressing their need for intimacy coordinators on set, are you confident that the industry is moving towards a future where these types of intimacy roles are a standard code of practice？

I think we’re certainly moving towards that. We’re on the right path and we’re certainly a million miles away from where we were a few years ago, which is really encouraging. We’ve come some way, for sure, but there’s still a long way to go. 

Actors must feel so much relief and an overdue sense of justice that the role of the intimacy coordinator is gradually becoming commonplace. 

Absolutely. When any actor knows that someone is there to take care of them and their needs whilst providing effective and creatively fulfilling choreography, creatives are going to be far more willing and receptive.

This is certainly reflected onscreen. The Bridgerton sex scenes have a huge sense of urgency and spontaneity, which is obviously the complete opposite of how they’re constructed. 

That’s a really good point to pick up on - in order to be spontaneous, it actually involves lots of preparation, as would a sequence in a fight with a good stunt coordinator. It’s going to look energy-filled when it’s quite the opposite behind the scenes. 

Honing in on the logistics of the job, a huge part of being a successful intimacy coordinator is creating a safe space, in which everyone feels comfortable enough to openly communicate and collaborate. How do you personally go about creating that？

I’m very aware that safety is subjective. Just because we call something a ‘safe space’ doesn’t necessarily mean that it is for everyone involved. My philosophy is that I’m going to make every effort I can to make the space feel as comfortable as possible for everyone in the room. That’s how I attempt to operate. But I also have to temper that with the knowledge that that’s just from my perspective and I need to broaden my horizons to ensure my perspective of safety isn’t the only one that’s being considered.

Speaking of the importance of perspective, a notable characteristic of the simulated sex scenes in Bridgerton is that they’re shot from the female gaze. Could you elaborate on the importance of depicting sex in this way？

Right from the first day, it was highlighted that this was going to be how this series would be approached. I think it was refreshing, quite honestly, that we weren’t going to see all the scenes we’d seen before. We were going to focus more on what the female sexual journey actually looks like, as opposed to what the general perception of it is. 

What’s really interesting is that I think we are trending towards wanting this more often. We want the film industry to start aspiring to the realities of the sexual experiences we know to be true in our everyday lives, rather than trying to aspire to what is on screen and having that reflected in our personal lives. Basically, it’s the pushback of reflection. We’ve been trying for so long in our personal lives to reflect what we’re seeing on screen, but actually, the trend is now for the film industry to start reflecting on what’s going on in reality. 

The role of the intimacy coordinator clearly has an important place in the modern world, not just for the actors but for those watching at home. All things considered, this must be a super fulfilling job. What would you say is the most rewarding part of it？

I’ll often get messages from actors before or after the scene, saying that they feel incredibly comfortable and are actually looking forward to the intimate scenes as opposed to dreading them. It’s a really encouraging part of the role because it means these scenes can be done with everyone’s comfort in mind and they can still tell the story, they can still be dynamic, they can still be really engaging. 

That’s a really exciting part of the job, especially because people were initially worried that it would stifle the creative process, existing purely to say “no”.  Obviously, these aren’t bad things, they’re very good things - but the perception was that we were going to be an incredibly constricting component when actually, what people are now finding, is that when you do the preparation work, when you have got the third party and when you are considerate of people’s consent and boundaries, it actually becomes a far more freeing process.

OK, last question - what would you say to someone who’s wanting to pursue a career in intimacy on screen, now that it is a viable option in the industry for people to explore？

I would say that it’s a role where you never stop learning. You’re never finished. Whilst we have much more information on setting boundaries than we ever had before, it continues to evolve. My encouragement would be to keep training. Take courses, speak to people, continue working towards obtaining as much information as you can. 

It’s also key to remember that, at the heart of it, it’s a choreography role, so if you’re going to make a career move into any other discipline, you should understand that intimacy coordination is a discipline entirely on its own. We’ve got a training programme in Stage and Screen with bitesize workshops and that sort of thing. 

Introductory workshops are key to see if it’s for you. Get a feel for it first, because it’s really quite complex. The media, certainly the tabloids, like to make it sound a lot sexier than it actually is. If you like advocacy, admin and choreography, then it’s certainly a role to consider. But if one of those things doesn’t really appeal, then it might not be for you.